AtheistParents.org

Use this thread to comment on this column.

As a followup note to this column, which I wrote about a week ago, my wife and I have determined that it's not just anger my girl has problems with. All emotions overwhelm her. Just the other day, she got something in the mail she had been anticipating for quite some time. The intense, overwhelming shock wave of excitement and joy damn near flattened my wife and me. At that moment we realized that all emotions are extreme in that girl. We just had focused on anger lately cause it's the emotion causing the most problems.

Wow, that's incredible. I like how you managed to see some positive stuff in that energy.

I was the same way and unfortunately my father isn't around to see me doing good. I regret that and always will regret him only seeing me as a self-destructive, "learn by expirience" kid.


Hope it works out for you.

Jesus, beekay, you are describing a child desparately in need of medication to control and even out her emotions. You can pretend all you want that this is typical pre-teen and teen angst and hormones run amok, but the truth is that this is quite typically the time when chemical imbalances present themselves in very disturbing ways. This has nothing to do with your parenting, but possibly a lot to do with the stress of moving, as severe stress seems to start up the process.

Please get her and her brother some help. My son was resistant to getting any help for years. He over reacted to everything, and was often enraged about situations and problems. He had thoughts and dreams in which he killed and killed people. He managed to keep much of this inside, but finally it got so bad, that he went to his family doctor and discussed the problem with her. She prescribed Depakote. Not only is he more evened out, but he has gained a terrific amount of confidence and calm. His chronic headaches have disappeared and he sleeps well. When he has forgotten his meds, he feels the rage coming back.

What a torment your child must be in. Act now to help her...get into therapy and check out help with medication.

Jeanne

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[deleted by Lisa]

At that age, I was very similar to your daughter. It took a few years, but I did just grow out of it naturally. In looking back, I can tell how hard it was on my mother, so I can imagine what you guys are going through.

I wish I could tell you why I grew out of it, but I really don't know. I remember that something just "snapped" inside of me and I calmed right down. I even remember it was when I was about 15.5 years old.

I do remember that my mom insisted that I see a therapist, but I refused.

nice column, beekay, I'm impressed there's some positivity to her energy.

My son will also make major battles out of minor issues. Once we get to a point of discussing, he is very coherent and will explain his perspective well. More often than not, these issues are related to miscommunications.

I'm sorry to see you forced into such expenditures of energy for nonsense stuff. If the kid can level out their response (and you, yours) then you have much better succes reaching an understanding/solution. That is a major step, especially since kids believe they are the center of the universe (when we really know it's the parents who are).

Keep up the good work, beekay.

I do not think that this is just growing pains. I think beekay's family needs professional help, and I think medication may be part of that. This is not normal for teenagers or third graders. I don't know exactly what kind of life and actions you all think are normal, but this is not it.

Absolutely there is a lack of communication here, and it starts with beekay and his wife. This has been going on for way too long, how can it not affect the kids?

Maybe normal is not the word, maybe healthy is the word. This is not a healthy family in which children are emotionally nurtured.

So you got problems, beekay, and my advice is for you and your wife to pull together and do something about it.

Please.

((((beekay))) hugs from Jeanne

And I must state again that I agree with Jeanne. A 12 year old raging to the point where they are gasping for breath and then acting perfectly happy a short time later is not normal. Depression in a third grader is not normal. I believe the two things are related. Even if they're not, I still think you should get some outside help for your whole family, not just as a punitive measure for your daughter (who is in my opinion suffering from some sort of physical/mental imbalance and is not just being naughty because of hormones).

I am worried about you and your kids, Beekay. Maybe you think I'm being over-the-top, but it doesn't seem right to me for your daughter's behavior to go on this long or for your 8yo (9yo?) son to fall into depression. Whatever the causes, I hope you get it figured out.

Lisa

beekay, I too chime in for family therapy. Make sure everyone participates and stays involved in any family consultation stuff. I used to have terrible fights with my sister. I went to a psych and she didn't. The imbalanced situation didn't help.

I think you (whole family) should consult a neutral party for some advice. There are many different approaches, and not all of them require medication. I have my own antidepressants, but I wouldn't choose it as the first best action.

good luck. let us know how it goes.

edit due to being a spas

Of course she's overwhelmed. She's surrounded by a society force-feeding adult behavior and topics on elementary school children, and unlike ye olde dayes when growing up at 12 was relatively safe, adulthood now consists of more than farming and making babies. She is constantly battered by forces telling her to grow up, make her own choices, and toss you codgers overboard, and she frankly doesn't have the tools. When you try to protect her from her lack of tools, you're interfering with what everything else around her is telling her to do, and here come the broadsides.

She overreacts to everything? She's heedless to your warning shots? Naturally. How much perspective do you think she has? Perspective is still YOUR job. For her, everything is immediate, visceral, and of uniform importance. Every issue is THE issue, every emotion is THE emotion, every disagreement is worth a temper tantrum. She still thinks like a child. The change that has occurred is that she is starting to believe that her thoughts should be treated like adult thoughts, and that is volatile.

I do not consider what you describe to be terribly far out of line. I'm not just talking out of my hat; I have four kids, three are girls, two of those are teenagers. I do not believe you need to subject yourselves to an endless parade of psychobabblists and masters of silly work who know less about the situation than you do, and I doubly do not believe your daughter needs stoned into the bombed age.

I think what you need to do is maintain stability. Don't get mad, don't scream and rant, just keep enforcing your standards (and you need no more reason than "I'm the Daddy"). This, too, will set her off, but you'll be setting an example of how adults should act, and you won't end up looking back on your actions and saying, "What the Hell was I thinking?" Over time she will develop perspective, and that's what you're aiming for.

beekay wrote:Use this thread to comment on this column.

As a followup note to this column, which I wrote about a week ago, my wife and I have determined that it's not just anger my girl has problems with. All emotions overwhelm her. Just the other day, she got something in the mail she had been anticipating for quite some time. The intense, overwhelming shock wave of excitement and joy damn near flattened my wife and me. At that moment we realized that all emotions are extreme in that girl. We just had focused on anger lately cause it's the emotion causing the most problems.

Hmm, you know, something just occurred to me. Does your daughter have any creative outlets? Theatre, dance, music, painting, writing, etc.? Because maybe part of what she needs is somewhere to channel all that energy and passion that she has?

Sounds about normal to me. Our oldest daughter who is turning 14 in less than a month goes through things like this. It's always her mouth that gets her in to trouble. I too have told her on more than one occassion that if she would just keep her mouth shut and think before she speaks that she would make her life a lot easier. Sometimes she does, sometimes she doesn't.

I don't see how on earth one could jump to the conclusion of chemical imbalance. It's absurd. Kids going through puberty are emotion machines who experience the highest highs and the lowest lows. I would contend that a pubescent kid who didn't go through those things would be a cause for concern.

And all kids are wired differently. My 12 year old is much less volatile than her older sister. She's just starting the process of going through the highs and lows but her disposition is much more laid back.
There is no one way that any child should behave. [/i]

Lamma wrote:I don't see how on earth one could jump to the conclusion of chemical imbalance. It's absurd.

Just for reference for the relative newcomers to the forum:

This article was only the latest in an intermittent series over the past couple years, which described lying, stealing, raging, etc in said now-preteen. Over time it appears to some of us old-timers that the problem is getting worse. So that's what we're basing on our opinions on when we suggest outside intervention.

Lisa

I’ve been meaning to talk to about how things are going, but just haven’t had time to type anything up. In brief, things aren’t too bad. We’ve certainly snatched the kids’ attention, and now, all of the sudden, they are doing remarkably better in school. Imagine that! General behavior has improved as well. Some enforcement actions are slipping on our (the parents’) part. My wife, unfortunately, has to do quite a bit of it because she is around them much more than I am. However, she is drained at the end of the day and has very little energy to stay on top of the situation like I think should be done. I fully understand her position and troubles, which makes the situation all that more vexing for me. I know that some things need to be done and enforced, but I also know there is no practical way to get it done. We’re working on it, though.

Overall, things have improved. Keeping this going for the long haul will be the real challenge, though. I’ll talk about this in more detail when I have some time.

Thanks for asking.

That's good to hear...at least you know that you are barkinig up the right tree...

Maybe she can learn some calming techniques, like stopping and taking 10 long deep breaths before continuing? Maybe you can ask her to write down what it is she wants to say and give it to you in 30 minutes, but not right now, etc. Just things to force her to stop the emotional crazitalk and do some thinking.

Yeah. This is a good idea. She needs to start learning how to think things through rationally. Maybe she should even be given some reasons as to WHY she should do certain things? Like, you need to learn resposibility, you should do chores to help your family keep the house clean (you are part of the family and need to take responsibility in maintaining a clean home); don't be lazy, we all have to work, too and so should you; you will need the skills to take care of your own house when you get one of your own, someday, etc.. She probably won't like this, but it might get her thinking.

Hmm, you know, something just occurred to me. Does your daughter have any creative outlets? Theatre, dance, music, painting, writing, etc.? Because maybe part of what she needs is somewhere to channel all that energy and passion that she has?

This definately helped me as a teenager when I was angry. If I could draw ugly pictures of people who were annoying me or making me angry (then I could laugh at the picture and feel better), or express my feelings through drawing. Also, writing is also a VERY good emotional outlet. I saved myself from going completely insane by being able to vent my feelings on paper. I would just freewrite whatever was going through my mind or start wring poetry. This was a life-saver. Another thing that helped me was just to dance in my room, by myself, and keep dancing until I could dance no more, my emotions and energy became drained and I felt a lot better. I had some serious depression, but was able to mantain a bit of sanity through my creative outlets.

She overreacts to everything? She's heedless to your warning shots? Naturally. How much perspective do you think she has? Perspective is still YOUR job. For her, everything is immediate, visceral, and of uniform importance. Every issue is THE issue, every emotion is THE emotion, every disagreement is worth a temper tantrum. She still thinks like a child. The change that has occurred is that she is starting to believe that her thoughts should be treated like adult thoughts, and that is volatile.

`Tis true. My science teacher said she believes all teenagers are mentally ill! I think that just about says it all! I'll believe that one. I was pretty crazy, irrational, depressed, schizo, myself. People said I should have taken anti-depressants, but I was too paranoid and sensative to drugs to ever take them, so I didn't. Only one time did I take some anti-depressants for a couple days and it had an ill affect on me, so I stopped taking them, and just tried to deal with my pycho-mind the best I could keep it under control.

I don't see how on earth one could jump to the conclusion of chemical imbalance. It's absurd. Kids going through puberty are emotion machines who experience the highest highs and the lowest lows. I would contend that a pubescent kid who didn't go through those things would be a cause for concern.

Hmm. Well, I think that if these fierce (and 'primitive') emotions are somehow channeled through some sort of creative outlet it's not as bad, and can actually turn out to be a good thing because they are converted into something creative (and 'sophisticated'?) instead of just raw energy doing nothing but stirring up chaos. The emotions are still very intense for the person experiencing them, but can be somewhat controlled and placated throught the creative outlet.

Teenagers don't think their parents understand what kind of hell they are going through with all these new emotions and feelings coursing through their veins. Heck, I STILL don't think my parents remember what it was really like to be a teenager! I still think they didn't understand anything about me as a teenager.